Forum Index
Hyundai Accent Club of Malaysia
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

NGV Anyone?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic     Forum Index -> Car Performance & Modification
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
rivaldo
Junior Member


Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 127

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So far anyone tested in Accent?

Need onwer's review. Laughing

So that we are more clear. Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
yanz
Junior Member


Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 190

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hopefully the gov will not increase the NG price as well.. heheh.. anything is possible in this bolehland!!! Twisted Evil

david wrote:
RM4600 divides by RM1.92/litre will get ~2396litre of petrol.

2396litre/30litre which i always pump in, will give me ~80pumps.

If i pump 4 times per month then i will have 20 months to pumps that amount of petrol.

20 months = 1 year and 8 months.

If I goto NGV, then i need to pay RM4800 upfront + 1 year 8 months to NGV @ RM0.68/litre of NGV will cost me RM1632, which totals of RM6432 in the first 20 months?

Razz

accentmaniac wrote:
david wrote:
what is the breakeven?

accentmaniac wrote:
Just got a verbal quote from the shop owner
Cost is about
RM4300 for 12L tank - RM8 of NGV
RM4600 for 15L Tank - RM10 of NGV
RM4900 for 18L tank - RM12 of NGV
More accurate price need to check our accent 1st
May give some minor discount ~RM100-RM150 if we have a group conversion
*Price inclusive of JPJ approval


It all based on the distance you travel.
Mine of 3000km per month ROI is 1.25 year
- NGV = RM0.68 / litre
- consumption slightly higher than our petrol
eg with petrol = 8.5L/100km, with NGV ~ 9.0L/100km
Petrol = 8.5L*RM1.92*3000/100 = RM489.60/month
NGV = 9.0L*RM0.68*3000/100 = RM183.60/month
Cost saved per month = RM306
ROI = RM4600/306 = 15months = 1.25 year Laughing Very Happy

_________________
1.5 RXS Auto Silver. Owned Feb 2006. Shell Super Helix. Mileage 8+++km. Michelin Energy XM1 180/60R14. No extra accessories. FC (Average) RM60.00 = 31.25L = 300km. 50% City Driving.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KCKS
Elite Member


Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now my accent already added NGV system and operate as Bi-fuel car. I can use NGV and patrol as I wish.

NGV can achieve nearly performance as petrol, it possible achieve less than 5% if the NGV ECU is properly map. The NGV is a clean fuel and said that it can prolonged engine life and also extend the maintainance interval of the engine. It proven can save a minimum of 50% compare to petrol. Its not only save $$ on fuel and also save $$$ on the car maintainance.

One full tank of NGV in 55 liter cylinder cost around (RM8 or less depend pressure of the NGV station) can give me minimum of 120km travel length in 80% city driving and 20% highway. As more than a month of using the NGV, I figured that it save me more than 60% of fuel cost in a month.

rivaldo wrote:
So far anyone tested in Accent?

Need onwer's review. Laughing

So that we are more clear. Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
david
Club Founder


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 3316
Location: 3rd rock from sun

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

salute KCKS Applause

mind to elaborate more on your story of installation, the cost, the new mainteanance schedule, pros and cons etc... using this NGV?
_________________
.: Safety, Handling and Performance - The Art Cycle of Car Modifications :.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
accentmaniac
Junior Member


Joined: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 224
Location: Penang

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya, I think the accentians is really interested especially the initial investment cost
_________________
Accent GLS AT, Oct 2004, Location:Penang
Shell Helix Super 10W40
Improvements mods:
1) Micro Compressor & super magnetic
2) "MaxSpeed" VS & 5pts Grounding
3) "K&N" Air Filter & "Hot Bit" Strut Bar
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
noname
Elite Member


Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 1548
Location: Petaling Jaya

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what is the cost of installing the NGV? so far i heard not many petrol station have NGV ... on selected petrol station.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
accentmaniac
Junior Member


Joined: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 224
Location: Penang

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

noname wrote:
what is the cost of installing the NGV? so far i heard not many petrol station have NGV ... on selected petrol station.


What I mean is the cost to install the NGV system in our Accent. Heard it will cost around 4.5 K

As for the cost of installing the NGV station, it cost millions... Twisted Evil
_________________
Accent GLS AT, Oct 2004, Location:Penang
Shell Helix Super 10W40
Improvements mods:
1) Micro Compressor & super magnetic
2) "MaxSpeed" VS & 5pts Grounding
3) "K&N" Air Filter & "Hot Bit" Strut Bar
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
KCKS
Elite Member


Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, there got few types of NGV conversion in the market. Let say i take some example for sedan cars using Landi Renzo (Italy) NGV system with 55liter cylinder.

1) Carburettor type
- cost less than RM3k
- Most simple type, gas mixer connect before carburettor inlet.
- Use solenoid valve to cut off petrol supply to carburettor and the
system use ignition signal to adjust the gas flow at the gas regulator to the carburettor.
- Need manual switching from petrol to gas or gas to petrol. Some skill and knowledge needed to do the switch-over. Embarassed

2) Single Fuel injection type
- Cost around RM4.5k
- Major For Aluminium Inlet Manifold engine, gas mixer connect before the
throttle body.
- Use emulator to cut off the fuel injector and generate signal to "tipu" the ECU that fuel injector is working correctly to prevent ECU report error signals.
- Petrol starting automatically then pass over to gas when the
acceleration pedal is release. But need manually switch-over from gas to
petrol. Sad

3) Multi-point fuel injection type
- Cost around RM6.5k
- Specially design for For MPFI Plastic Inlet Manifold engine, individual
gas injectors locate at every channel of plastic manifold (Just beside the
Fuel Injector)
- Use seperate Gas ECU to Joint-Venture with Original Petrol,read
individual injection timing from petrol ECU, calculate the require energy
and convert the same injection timing to the gas injector. Other engine
management is still remain back to the Petrol ECU.
- Everything is working automatically. Engine starting at petrol than
automatically change to gas when the engine temperature reached the preset temperature. Cool
- When the gas is run-out (empty), the system will automatically change
back to petrol with buzzer sound to notify at the miniature
Indicator/Switch (about the size of 50cts). Cool

For Accent, as per the NGV expert recommendation. We got no choice, we
need to use the type 3 (Omegas) to have correct gas injection timing to
prevent any back fire from the engine to burn off the plastic manifold. As
what i heard the Omegas system is the best NGV system in the market which can provide the nearest performance as using petrol. Not like the type 2, sharing the gas from one main inlet then uneven of gas distributed to individual manifold.

As what i discussed with the technical person, he told me that the engine
maintenance will be extended. So the periodical engine oil will be extended to twice. That means we can change the engine oil once at every
10k km. The ngv is a clean fuel that does not contaminate and dilute the
crank case oil. The spark plug life also extended too.

I had search around at the website and came across that the lifespan of
the engine using NGV will be minimum twice time longer than engine using
petrol. It is because the petrol enter engine in the form of a spray or
mist and wash down the lubricating oil from the top piston ring area hence
increase the rate of depreciation of the engine. While the NGV enter as
gas that doesn't wash down the lubricating oil.

The consumption of both fuel is same. Now the price of Ron97 is RM1.92 per liter and NGV is RM0.68 per kg. So the saving will be logically 60 over
percent compare NGV with petrol. The NGV usage in our country is around 10 % of produced and the reserve is plentiful for usage. So the price will be much more stable that petrol. Let imagine what will happenned if our
government increase the price of NGV, i bet the taxi drivers will strike
first coz they mainly rely NGV for doing business. The cost of the
conversion system will be easily gain back in short period if the driver
always travel alot.

Advantages
- Save fuel cost with minimum of 60%. Exclamation
- Save in maintainance cost. (Now after my next 20k km service, i'll do
interval 10k km service to save maintainance)
Twisted Evil
- Governemnt contribute to give 25% off to the road tax. Cool (After geting
Puspakom Inspection and update info at JPJ) refer Mymesra-Petronas
- Save our environment with this clean fuel. Razz

Disadvantages
- Cylinder is installed at the rear trunk. For Accent, almost half trunk
capacity is gone. But the remaining space still same as all the hatchback
car. If the car owner not frequenly use the rear trunk as his "private"
store, it should be not a big deal. Not talking
- Cylinder is made of special material and consume quite some weight. So
the car suspension will be lower, but I measured accent only goes down
around 1/2" (Still acceptable). Its very safety can withstand bullet, not like petrol tank only made of steel sheet. Shocked
- NGV conversion system quite costly for setup but the cost will be
quickly retrieve back in short period. Think
- Due to our country NGV station still in progress of expanding, so
private car normally will do the refueling at early morning and night to
prevent long queqe with the taxi drivers. But we can use back petrol if
the gas is totally run-out. Idea

FYI, NGV is called CNG at others country. Info can be found at
CNG
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
KCKS
Elite Member


Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, now temporary petronas only got the license to sell ngv. But not all petronas sell ngv. Please refer Petronas NGV station
noname wrote:
what is the cost of installing the NGV? so far i heard not many petrol station have NGV ... on selected petrol station.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
KCKS
Elite Member


Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 4.5k system only suitable for engine with aluminum inlet manifold. The technical person told me its possible force to convert the 4.5k system but used it on your own risk. Exclamation In future when the tuning is slightly out, there will be big chances that either the manifold or the throttle will burst off when the engine got back fire. Shocked Exclamation

The cost to open a small retail ngv oulet is similar with the cost of open a grand petrol station. I heard the minimum cost will be around 2 mil and above Shocked Thats why petronas now only selected some outlets to have NGV for selling. Wink

accentmaniac wrote:
noname wrote:
what is the cost of installing the NGV? so far i heard not many petrol station have NGV ... on selected petrol station.



What I mean is the cost to install the NGV system in our Accent. Heard it will cost around 4.5 K

As for the cost of installing the NGV station, it cost millions... Twisted Evil
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
david
Club Founder


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 3316
Location: 3rd rock from sun

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

one question KCKS. there is a controversion that says in the future all industrialized cars will be using alternative fuel, wont that will be better to wait for better fuel system rather that invest now?

despite the cost savings in petrols and maintenance, what others justification to think off?
_________________
.: Safety, Handling and Performance - The Art Cycle of Car Modifications :.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
noname
Elite Member


Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 1548
Location: Petaling Jaya

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KCKS wrote:
Yes, now temporary petronas only got the license to sell ngv. But not all petronas sell ngv. Please refer Petronas NGV station
noname wrote:
what is the cost of installing the NGV? so far i heard not many petrol station have NGV ... on selected petrol station.


wow, tks for the info. now make me itchy want to install the NGV as petrol price keep on increasing...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
KCKS
Elite Member


Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you mean the hybrid car?? I think its just launch at foreign country but i believe it will take quite some time for it to be available here. As all we know, Malaysia is a slower country to adopt new technologies compare to others. So how many years do we need to wait for it ?? 5 years? 10 years?? Or more. Embarassed

Beside of the common fuel such as Petrol and diesel, the next alternative fuel available around should be LPG and NGV. LPG normally used for cooking and some use at the forklift, because the price of LPG is proportionate with petrol. It is less porpular in automotive industries here coz the selling price keep on inflating every few months as the common fuel. But the NGV price will be more stable coz the demand usage is small and there are plentify reserve. Another point is if our government increase the NGV price, i think the taxis driver will be strike first beacuse they mainly rely on NGV for running their business. How are they going to charge the customer if they use petrol?? The price of NGV will be increase in future but i can bet the price won't be hike as petrol.

The cost to setup the system will be high at beginning, but if as a long term view. We can actually get to save more $$$ if the price of petrol price increase ratio is more than NGV. At that time, logically everyone will start to find solution to save $$$ and start to demand of converting to the NGV system. So the selling price of the conversion system will be automatically increase due to high demand. Exclamation

Let us compare a bit between Hybrid system with NGV system:

- If we want to use hybrid system, we need to purchase entire new car with high price, ngv only cost us few thousands bucks to enjoy the benefit of saving.

- Hybrid is design to use at normal road condition but not heavy traffic area. Lets imagine if it is drive at city, heavy traffic jam will keep the motor drain off the battery but no any charging (coz slow moving speed). So at the end when the power of the battery is low, the engine will only use petrol as the normal car. Will it save $$$ anymore? Question But NGV system will keep on giving you saving until the tank is empty. Wink

- How about the maintenance? How much is the cost of changing the hybrid battery cell? I think it will cost up to thousand bucks. Shocked But NGV system only required normal maintenance such as ECU tuning(if you feel performance is down after changing the spark plugs), entire system checking(if got gas leaking) and gas filter change (recommended 30k km, same periodical as petrol filter but the required mileage change of petrol filter will be extend due to less usage of petrol). It won't cost alot of doing the maintenance. Wink

Because of Malaysia now already started having the NGV facilities, why not we start to save now while waiting for the new alternative fuel system vehicle available at here soon. Wink

david wrote:
one question KCKS. there is a controversion that says in the future all industrialized cars will be using alternative fuel, wont that will be better to wait for better fuel system rather that invest now?

despite the cost savings in petrols and maintenance, what others justification to think off?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
KCKS
Elite Member


Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now the government is planning to expand the avaibility of NGV station around. Main planning is the North South Highway. Wink And also plan that majority petronas have it too. Wink There will be more and more around soon. Cool
noname wrote:
KCKS wrote:
Yes, now temporary petronas only got the license to sell ngv. But not all petronas sell ngv. Please refer Petronas NGV station
noname wrote:
what is the cost of installing the NGV? so far i heard not many petrol station have NGV ... on selected petrol station.


wow, tks for the info. now make me itchy want to install the NGV as petrol price keep on increasing...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
accentmaniac
Junior Member


Joined: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 224
Location: Penang

PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KCKS wrote:
Now the government is planning to expand the avaibility of NGV station around. Main planning is the North South Highway. Wink And also plan that majority petronas have it too. Wink There will be more and more around soon. Cool
noname wrote:
KCKS wrote:
Yes, now temporary petronas only got the license to sell ngv. But not all petronas sell ngv. Please refer Petronas NGV station
noname wrote:
what is the cost of installing the NGV? so far i heard not many petrol station have NGV ... on selected petrol station.


wow, tks for the info. now make me itchy want to install the NGV as petrol price keep on increasing...


Lets all hope that it will come sooner than our accent phase out Laughing
_________________
Accent GLS AT, Oct 2004, Location:Penang
Shell Helix Super 10W40
Improvements mods:
1) Micro Compressor & super magnetic
2) "MaxSpeed" VS & 5pts Grounding
3) "K&N" Air Filter & "Hot Bit" Strut Bar
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic     Forum Index -> Car Performance & Modification All times are GMT + 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group